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KKLA Creation Dialogue with Drs. Jason Lisle and Hugh Ross, Part III April 6, 2010

Posted by Dave Landis in Christian.
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The topic of death before sin came up in the debate.    Dr. Ross conveyed his view that in Romans 5 , man’s sin had no correlation with animal death prior to the fall. Dr. Lisle pointed out that he could understand why Dr. Ross might think that this passage only had human death in mind, but said that there were numerous other passages that show that all death followed Adam’s sin.  It is my understanding that progressive creation posits there was a time millions of  years prior to the appearance of Adam and Eve when animals lived and died.  Dinosaurs became extinct before man’s creation.

If one looks at the narrative in Genesis 1, the word phrase “And God saw that it was good” is mentioned five times.  On day six, the phrase “And God saw that it was good” was mentioned after the creation of land animals, and then “And God saw that it was very good” was said after man’s creation.   Also, on the first day, after God created light, the text says “And God saw that the light was good”.  So in all, seven references to “good” in the creation.

So, since when is death good?     When is suffering “good”?   The fossil record shows that dinosaurs experienced brain tumors and cancer has been found in dinosaur fossils.   Again, I simply have to scratch my head when it comes to the definitions that Dr. Ross attaches to the words in Genesis.

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1. Kirk Bertsche - April 8, 2010

In context, I don’t believe the “good” refers to moral goodness. I believe “good” could here be paraphrased “beneficial for man.” This is why the comment changes to “very good” after man is here–man was the goal of the entire account.

Dave asks, “So, since when is death good?”

Consider Psalm 104, a poetic commentary on Creation and Providence:

“Psa. 104:20 You appoint darkness and it becomes night,
In which all the beasts of the forest prowl about.
Psa. 104:21 The young lions roar after their prey
And seek their food from God.

Psa. 104:27 ¶ They all await for You
To give them their food in due season.
Psa. 104:28 You give to them, they gather it up;
You open Your hand, they are satisfied with good.
Psa. 104:29 You hide Your face, they are dismayed;
You take away their spirit, they expire
And return to their dust. ”

The psalmist says that God feeds the carnivorous lions. (What does He feed them? Live animals!) And God causes animals to die and return to the dust. This Psalm says that death of animals is part of God’s sovereign, providential control of His creation, and seems to imply that this is part of His good plan.


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